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									Has anyone used Green Water Labs&#039; Algae control? - Plants				            </title>
            <link>https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/has-anyone-used-green-water-labs-algae-control/</link>
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                        <title>RE: Has anyone used Green Water Labs&#039; Algae control?</title>
                        <link>https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/has-anyone-used-green-water-labs-algae-control/paged/3/#post-460</link>
                        <pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2024 01:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[@paul-g Thanks Paul. We are all looking for a magic bullet to control algae growth but few of us are as patient and systematic as you. We welcome your experimentation and are glad you take u...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[@paul-g Thanks Paul. We are all looking for a magic bullet to control algae growth but few of us are as patient and systematic as you. We welcome your experimentation and are glad you take us along. Keep up the good work.]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/">Plants</category>                        <dc:creator>jcurts</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Has anyone used Green Water Labs&#039; Algae control?</title>
                        <link>https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/has-anyone-used-green-water-labs-algae-control/paged/3/#post-459</link>
                        <pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2024 22:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Given results so far, I don&#039;t see moving forward as promising anything new. Nothing is to be gained by going on. I will hold these last two treatments in reserve just in case I need another ...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given results so far, I don't see moving forward as promising anything new. Nothing is to be gained by going on. I will hold these last two treatments in reserve just in case I need another reset. The present dose expires Tuesday, but I have already done some sizable water changes, so I am calling it. </p>
<p><em>Algae Control</em> is demonstrably effective against at least some types of algae and cyano. It is slow acting so results seem sketchy at first. It is not a chemically synthetic algicide with a definable lethal dose specification. It is organic in the sense that it is naturally derived and also re-integrates instantly with natural waters. So many factors weigh in on the variability of its effectiveness, it is difficult to say how much improvement is due to other measures taken to get at the root of the algae problem and how much to the impact of <em>Algae Control</em>. I believe that is just the point of this product. I would say it is meant to be a useful part of the anti-algae protocol, not a total solution. Therefore it must be cautioned that every tank is different and every algae problem is different and every aquarist is different, so the only way a prospective user would know for sure whether Algae Control works is to try it. But it will definitely not work if the aquarist expects the product to be a rapid cure without also addressing the real algae problem. </p>
<p>Green Water Labs points out that some patience is required. The product is natural and has a subtlety to it; respect the process. If you don't see some improvement in just a few days at the minimum dose, increase the dose, and expect that this will be an extended course of treatment. You will very probably not get instant results because <em>Algae Control</em> is not that kind of product. Is it intended to be used on a regular basis from now on, or is it best used only as a weapon in a campaign against an algal uprising? I have just used it in the latter application, and have no intention of being hooked on it. Aside from the fact that I need to hone my skills and coexist with algae on terms acceptable to me without resort to putting something special in the water, <em>Algae Control</em> is expensive, especially for big tanks.</p>
<p>That <em>Algae Control</em> can be shown to effectively inhibit algae I have no doubt. It is its method of use that determines whether it is feasible for the individual aquarist. Whether it "works" is a judgement call, depending on your specific set of acceptance criteria.</p>
<p>I would definitely not discourage trying <em>Algae Control</em>, but you have to take it on its own terms. Hopefully your tank size won't make it prohibitively expensive, but plan on a course of several treatments too see any real effects or don't waste your money. Go to GWL's website and read everything, work out a dosage plan, and buy the package in one go because you get quantity discounting. In the meantime, keep trying to solve the problem by all other means.</p>
<p>A question I am looking to answer next is whether there is a regime for using concentrated barley straw extract that would be as effective? Then, how would the costs compare? CBSE is pretty pricey stuff.</p>
<p>Thanks for the attention. Hope you found it useful in some way.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/">Plants</category>                        <dc:creator>Paul G</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Has anyone used Green Water Labs&#039; Algae control?</title>
                        <link>https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/has-anyone-used-green-water-labs-algae-control/paged/3/#post-455</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2024 15:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Day 70: Tuesday 01/30/24
Previously in this last week, filter changes with about a 12% water change, intake tubes changed, thorough glass scraping all around. Yesterday all infested plant l...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Day 70: Tuesday 01/30/24</p>
<p>Previously in this last week, filter changes with about a 12% water change, intake tubes changed, thorough glass scraping all around. Yesterday all infested plant leaves were pruned, and many plants were removed altogether. This included a good deal of the larger Crypts. I think AC might have been killing or inhibiting the dark green film but actually removing the algae still required total removal of infested plant parts. </p>
<p>With these Crypts gone and the Java Fern also pruned and cleaned up, the algae in this tank is now seemingly abating. As previously discussed, I am not seeing any other types of algae anywhere except for the green periphyton which always is first visible on the front glass when lit, and that is not vigorous. The hardscape has some of this black film but I am not removing these rocks for certain reasons; I suspect time and process will deal with it naturally. Also yesterday I did another 12% "big gulp" water change. Even with the SWCR, I suspect DOM exportation has not been what it needs to be.</p>
<p>Something I'm appreciating the importance of now: I have significantly lowered the prevailing KH. </p>
<p>First 16 oz AC at 07:35; second 16 oz AC at 08:28. The usual COD bump with pH and ORP drops.</p>
<p>As said earlier, it's clear that AC does kill algae. My plan is to continue dosing AC through the next two cycles and then to stop with this treatment. Part of the overall assessment of the product will include observations made <em>after</em> the treatment is stopped.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/">Plants</category>                        <dc:creator>Paul G</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Has anyone used Green Water Labs&#039; Algae control?</title>
                        <link>https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/has-anyone-used-green-water-labs-algae-control/paged/3/#post-445</link>
                        <pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2024 01:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Day 65: Thursday 01/25/24
No abnormalities or adverse effects in evidence. Return to regular schedules.]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Day 65: Thursday 01/25/24</p>
<p>No abnormalities or adverse effects in evidence. Return to regular schedules.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/">Plants</category>                        <dc:creator>Paul G</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Has anyone used Green Water Labs&#039; Algae control?</title>
                        <link>https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/has-anyone-used-green-water-labs-algae-control/paged/2/#post-441</link>
                        <pubDate>Wed, 24 Jan 2024 22:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Day 64: Wednesday 01/24/24
Did 24% water change, changed and cleaned filters and intakes. First 16 oz AC put in at 11:31, second 16 oz put in at 13:03. Usual pH and COD transients. No black...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Day 64: Wednesday 01/24/24</p>
<p>Did 24% water change, changed and cleaned filters and intakes. First 16 oz AC put in at 11:31, second 16 oz put in at 13:03. Usual pH and COD transients. No blackout. SWCR suspended for 24 hours.</p>
<p>I now have the last 6-pack (3 more treatments), and the trial will be concluded by mid-February. A 32 oz dose of AC has been used every 5 - 7 days beginning 11/20/23. </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/">Plants</category>                        <dc:creator>Paul G</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Has anyone used Green Water Labs&#039; Algae control?</title>
                        <link>https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/has-anyone-used-green-water-labs-algae-control/paged/2/#post-440</link>
                        <pubDate>Sun, 21 Jan 2024 19:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Day 61: Sunday 01/21/24 
PRELIMINARY OBSERVATIONS AND THE NEXT STEPS
I believe this product has an effect on algae. At this point in the trial results are mixed. The general impression is ...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Day 61: Sunday 01/21/24 </p>
<p>PRELIMINARY OBSERVATIONS AND THE NEXT STEPS</p>
<p>I believe this product has an effect on algae. At this point in the trial results are mixed. The general impression is favorable overall, but there are still some unsightly dark green spots and patches on older swordplant and crypt leaves that appear not to be attenuated.</p>
<p>DARK FILMY GROWTH: Earlier on I had pruned out older growth that looked hopeless, leaving some of these leaves where I can watch progress. If I am going to continue dosing AC, it will be resumption of the trial to pin down a final judgement after I have done an enthusiastic physical removal of everything that has not shown any improvement after the treatment so far. As discussed earlier, the big crypts seem to tolerate having the upper sides of their leaves infested. They shed older leaves and the plants continue to grow. It looks to me like many of these leaves show significant thinning of the infestation, but it is far from being eradicated. The new crypt sprouts popping up everywhere are relatively clear, but evidently not immune. The black/green film keeps trying to spread and is especially visible on the new, but now lower parts, of the water wisteria. I find this discouraging because I expected that after all the treatment with AC this blight would show <em>some</em> sign of attenuation by now.</p>
<p>ALL OTHER ALGAE: There<em> are no other types of algae to be seen anywhere</em>. No BBA or any kind of "fuzzy" or beard algae, even small tufts that tend to erupt where the current is favorable, as they sometimes do. There are no filamentous hair greens or blue-greens. Something unexpected is the exceptional clarity of the water which I attribute to suppression of all planktonic forms and their grazer populations. A thorough scraping of the glass, including sides and back from rim to gravel-line, is done weekly. Algae is now very slow to reappear on these surfaces this far into the trial, even though I am trying to raise the illumination. </p>
<p>I have just this one aquarium, not counting the holding/quarantine 20 Long, so I maintain this as the show tank it is meant to be. As a result of this, I have been doing other things in the fight against algae besides dosing AC. It is essential to identify and correct causation in the first place, so I am altering the lighting, implementing blackouts, decreasing all sources of nutrient (scrupulous feeding and routine detritus removal), and doing frequent mechanical and biological filter maintenance, with attendant water changes, all the while I have been conducting this trial. This increases the difficulty of analyzing the efficacy of AC alone because I am deliberately altering more than one variable at a time. I fully appreciate that this confounds the interpretations of results and thus compromises the experiment to some extent, but it must be recognized that all feasible steps must be taken to secure a satisfactory outcome without risking further degradation. Technically, this is just adhering to the stringent standards of practice which have been obligatory all along; get at the root of it and solve the real problem, and don't rely wholly on alleviating the symptoms by "treatment" of the water column with algicides and algistats. </p>
<p>Two important modifications to the system were made at the beginning of the trial:</p>
<p>1) The gravel bed jets were turned on again, thus restoring the reverse-flow undergravel filter. This will have, certainly is having, an effect on the substrate that will probably take some time to manifest and then to fully evaluate. This is an inert gravel bed (apart from existing mulm) and the scheme of nutrient delivery is becoming increasingly hydroponic. This is a topic for a later time, but suffice it to say there have been no undesirable effects of any kind respecting health of fish and rooted plants - thus far. Implications to the algae problem are uncertain for now.</p>
<p>2) The hardness profile was flipped to make the GH and KH commensurable, with GH leading (<em>i.e.</em> dKH &lt; dGH). This significantly reduces the concentration of bicarbonate, which all algae are readily able to assimilate more efficiently than can macrophytes.* Bicarbonate is a source of carbon for algae; a correlation of alkalinity and algal population growth should be expected. I am certain there is something important about the "nuisance algae" problem to be learned here.</p>
<p>I have returned to the GWL web-site and again studied all the information they have there about AC. There is revealed in the FAQ section (and only there) that the mode of action of AC is disruption of "algae enzymes <em>necessary for photosynthesis</em>." The active ingredient insinuates itself into the metabolic pathway and interferes with vital functions. This defines AC as a true algicide though details are not discussed. </p>
<p>Given the encouraging results, I am inclined to continue this trial further. These remarks will be continued in following posts.</p>
<p>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p>
<p>*Sigee, David C. 2005. <em>Freshwater Microbiology</em>. Wiley. See sub-chapter 4.8.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/">Plants</category>                        <dc:creator>Paul G</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Has anyone used Green Water Labs&#039; Algae control?</title>
                        <link>https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/has-anyone-used-green-water-labs-algae-control/paged/2/#post-431</link>
                        <pubDate>Wed, 17 Jan 2024 16:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Day 57: Wednesday 01/17/24
No abnormalities or adverse effects in evidence.
For the last week, the lights have been turned up just slightly. The Hygrophila difformis survived just fine at ...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Day 57: Wednesday 01/17/24</p>
<p>No abnormalities or adverse effects in evidence.</p>
<p>For the last week, the lights have been turned up just slightly. The <em>Hygrophila difformis</em> survived just fine at the lower light levels, but was very slow to grow. Same for the sworplants which were uprooted and replanted recently. I am not taking PAR measurements but am observing closely. The minimum light consistent with slow but positive growth is the goal. </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/">Plants</category>                        <dc:creator>Paul G</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Has anyone used Green Water Labs&#039; Algae control?</title>
                        <link>https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/has-anyone-used-green-water-labs-algae-control/paged/2/#post-430</link>
                        <pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2024 23:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Day 56: Tuesday 01/16/24
First 16 oz AC added 07:30. Second 16 oz added 08:27. The usual pH and COD transients. No blackout.]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Day 56: Tuesday 01/16/24</p>
<p>First 16 oz AC added 07:30. Second 16 oz added 08:27. The usual pH and COD transients. No blackout.</p>
<p> </p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/">Plants</category>                        <dc:creator>Paul G</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Has anyone used Green Water Labs&#039; Algae control?</title>
                        <link>https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/has-anyone-used-green-water-labs-algae-control/paged/2/#post-425</link>
                        <pubDate>Thu, 11 Jan 2024 20:13:41 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Day 52: Thursday 01/11/24
No abnormalities or adverse effects in evidence.]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Day 52: Thursday 01/11/24</p>
<p>No abnormalities or adverse effects in evidence.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/">Plants</category>                        <dc:creator>Paul G</dc:creator>
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                        <title>RE: Has anyone used Green Water Labs&#039; Algae control?</title>
                        <link>https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/has-anyone-used-green-water-labs-algae-control/paged/2/#post-424</link>
                        <pubDate>Thu, 11 Jan 2024 02:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
                        <description><![CDATA[Day 51: Wednesday 01/10/24
I have another 6-pack of AC and am extending this trial a bit further. Today I changed out the mechanical filters and did a 16 gallon &quot;big gulp&quot; water change. Als...]]></description>
                        <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Day 51: Wednesday 01/10/24</p>
<p>I have another 6-pack of AC and am extending this trial a bit further. Today I changed out the mechanical filters and did a 16 gallon "big gulp" water change. Also removed the Java fern temporarily so all the back and sides could be accessed with the algae scrapers. </p>
<p>One 16 oz AC added at 14:50. Second 16 oz AC added at 18:00. No blackout.</p>]]></content:encoded>
						                            <category domain="https://kcfishclub.org/community/plants/">Plants</category>                        <dc:creator>Paul G</dc:creator>
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